Embassy News
Ambassador Ryan Crocker's Interview with Bill Hemmer, FOX News
October 21, 2008
BILL HEMMER: You know, Mr. Ambassador, you have had the unique opportunity to spend 5 years since 9/11 in 3 of the most critical areas of the war on terror: Pakistan, Afghanistan, and now Iraq. What in the world has the last five years been?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Well, it has been five extremely interesting years. This is America's long war. And it's been my privilege to be on the two main fronts, Pakistan and Afghanistan, and then here, in Iraq, during that period. And it will go on long after I'm gone.
BILL HEMMER: You came here post-surge. You have been in your position a little more than a year-and-a-half now. What do you think the people back home need to understand about what is happening here in Iraq today, and maybe what has happened?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: First, again, a sense of perspective. When I came here in March of 2007, the surge was getting underway and the situation was extremely –
BILL HEMMER: Yes.
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: I remember my first time downtown, right after I got here, I went into al-Dora, which was a center of al-Qaeda activity. And it was a total war zone. Just deployed a surge brigade in there. The devastation was total. People were afraid to come out on the streets. The shops were closed. And I kind of came back to the office saying, you know, "My God, what have I gotten myself into here?"
I was back in al-Dora a year later, and it was totally transformed. Shops were open, streets were busy. And the week I was there, tens of thousands of Shia pilgrims had walked through (inaudible) for a Shia religious commemoration. Al-Dora is a seedy area. A year before, if they had tried, they would have been killed. A year later, the Sunni residents were out on the streets, handing them food and water –
BILL HEMMER: Wow.
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: -- and some of them joining the procession. So I think the first thing that Americans need to understand is how profound the changes have been in the 18 months since the surge got underway.
The second thing is how high the stakes are here. We are making substantial progress, but this isn't over. We have to be sure we don't lose focus, we don't lose attention, and we don't let our strategic enemies regain an initiative.
BILL HEMMER: On that strategic enemy aspect, you're talking about Iran?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: I am talking about Iran, I am talking about al-Qaeda, two extremes.
BILL HEMMER: When you say the stakes are high, how high?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Well, bear in mind, again, when I got here al-Qaeda had a very strong grip in this country. And their aim has always been to establish a presence in the Arab Muslim world. Pakistan and Afghanistan are important to them, but what is critical to them are roots in the Arab world. And they almost got them here.
BILL HEMMER: Almost, huh?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Almost. And they will try -- if we let up, they will try to come back. And that we cannot, absolutely cannot, afford.
BILL HEMMER: This agreement between the U.S. military and the Iraqi government may happen in a couple of weeks, may happen in a couple of days, it may not happen for some time. How close is that agreement to being reached?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Well, the negotiators have really done their work. And although it may seem like a long time to get an agreement like this written up within seven months, which is what it took, it's pretty amazing. Status of forces agreements normally take a couple of years. So it's actually gone pretty fast. The agreement is now in the Iraqi decision-making process.
BILL HEMMER: Right.
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: The council of ministers will be considering it on Tuesday, and we will see where it goes. This is –
BILL HEMMER: So is that next Tuesday?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: That is this -- today.
BILL HEMMER: That's this Tuesday. That is today. Okay. That's the cabinet?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: That's the cabinet.
BILL HEMMER: Is it close, or can you say that?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Well, again, negotiators have concluded a text. It is now part of an Iraqi decision-making process. Their council of ministers is not like our cabinet. It's a parliamentary system, which means that different political blocks are involved. And then, ultimately, this has to go before their parliament, their council of representatives.
BILL HEMMER: How many drafts has this agreement gone through?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Well, it's hard to talk, in terms of drafts, because it's a text that developed, you know. And we started on this in the spring, it's been through a number of –
BILL HEMMER: Revisions and –
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: -- revisions and revisions and –
BILL HEMMER: I mean, everybody is in there, fighting for their own –
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Absolutely.
BILL HEMMER: -- piece of the pie, right?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Well, it's been an interesting negotiation, because it's a negotiation between partners, not adversaries. We are both seeking the same things here. It's just it has to work in our system, and it has to work in theirs. And finding the right balance is what the negotiators –
BILL HEMMER: You have a deadline here, though. It's -- I mean, the end of December, December 31st, is when the UN mandate expires. If the agreement is not reached by then, what then?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: The United States has to have a legal basis to operate in support of Iraqi security forces.
BILL HEMMER: But do you see a time when you have to go back to the UN to get that done?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Well, the commitment of both governments is to move forward on the basis of bilateral agreement. The Iraqis have said for more than a year that they want the current resolution to be the last one. We have agreed. We think we have a good agreement. They need to approve it.
In theory, a Security Council resolution would carry us forward into 2009, but that's not really where either of us want to go.
BILL HEMMER: I talked to General Odierno a short time ago. What's Iran up to?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: It's important to look at Iran in a regional and historical context. I think Iran is, of course, very much seeking America's defeat in Iraq. There is no question about that. Their support for the so-called special groups, some of the new groups that were formed after the set-back Iran received at the hand of Iraqi security forces in the spring, you know, they are still very much in this fight against us.
BILL HEMMER: Do you think they're messing with this whole agreement thing, too?
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Iran has made it very publicly clear they do not want to see this agreement.
BILL HEMMER: Because they want the U.S. out.
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: They want the U.S. out, but they want something more fundamental than that, in my view.
Iran and Iraq fought a brutal eight-year war with a level of human loss that, really, the world hasn't seen since World War I in the trench warfare. That war ended in a stalemate in 1988. For many in Iran, including those who were directing Iran's policy toward Iraq, that war still isn't over.
BILL HEMMER: Oh.
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: They would still like to win it. And they know if they can get us out before Iraq is ready, they can then not only have defeated the U.S. presence in Iraq, they can defeat Iraq.
BILL HEMMER: And a strong Iraq stands up to a stronger Iran.
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: That's exactly right.
BILL HEMMER: Thank you, Mr. Ambassador.
AMBASSADOR CROCKER: Thank you.
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